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12, pages 12-17). Permanent deacons are ordained to the Catholic Church and have no intentions of becoming a priest. Copyright 2023 US Catholic. Notice in my message, I'm not advocating that you break up. Hence, you are saying (unless I misunderstood) - that Catholics are not going to heaven. If we know where the Church is, we are convinced of its truth, we don't agree with intermarriages with other churches or faiths that disagree with the truth. Maybe your significant other needs to also learn about Roman Catholicism and see if she is still convinced to stay Orthodox or to move over. Correct me if i'm mistaken here, but you said in one of your posts that the differences (between Orthodox and Catholics) can hinder salvation; hence my response is simple: are you saying therefore that ONLY Coptic Orthodox Christians are going to heaven? Orthodox Christian LEAVES the Orthodox Church and goes to the Catholic. Wedding Crowns The declaration calls for intensified prayers for all Christians who are persecuted and killed for their faith, especially in Egypt and the Middle East. However, I can understand whatever you choose. Is Coptic similar to Greek? 7) He did not come back. Can a Coptic Orthodox marry a Roman Catholic? As for being married by a priest, you will be required to be married in the presence of your bishop or pastor (or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them) unless you pursue a dispensation to permit you to have a non-Catholic ceremony. I'm sure you learned about the Church a bit, but what about the history of the division? (Dont shoot the messenger!) It would seem to me two people who are in love see no essential reason for the Churches to be divided, given what they believe. It would be easier (and wiser) to be one in all things, including the Church they will become part of and are convinced of its Orthodoxy. They wear crowns, capes, lavishly embroidered garments, jewelry, and all manner of decadence. One of the first things you'll notice about a Coptic wedding is that the bride and groom are dressed a bit like royalty. Do Catholic schools have a superiority complex? The Church separated from other Christian denominations at the Council of Chalcedon (451 AD) in a theological dispute over the human and divine nature of Jesus Christ. He began translating important Catholic books into Arabic so they could be read by Christians in Egypt and other parts of the Middle East. Who Performs Confirmation In The Catholic Church? ThoughtCo. i joined the orthodox church from a protestant Christian background (since early childhood). Don't you think this would help make your relationship much more fruitful if you desire to be faithful to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church through marriage? At that point, we stopped to attend the liturgy together - he was changing the plans all the time, even when I asked to go together, next morning he was saying that he feels tired and so on). Requirements for Getting Married in the Catholic Church. - "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Nicholas Black Elk: Fully Lakota, completely Catholic, Pray with the four elements to connect to God and the Earth, Chronological list of the Doctors of the Church. I answered that I love my church and I want to stay in it. so you are doing nothing wrong by respecting yourself (as God does) and by asking your separated husband to allow you to attend church where you like. So you need to examine the two faiths and see which one you are convinced with. I didn't know him when he was depressed - he was used to saying to everyone that I enlightened his world again and that he is happy with me. The head of the church and the See of Alexandria is the Patriarch of Alexandria on the Holy See of Saint Mark, who also carries the title of Coptic Pope. Uniquely among the Alexandrian Rite Eastern Catholic liturgies, the Coptic Catholic Church uses the Coptic . Rather it states we are working towards more unity. At first, these marriages were recognized by local bishops, but as time went on, more and more states began to recognize other types of marital arrangements too. Sacraments and Apostolic Succession Marriages between members of the Catholic and Orthodox religions are permitted in most Orthodox churches. Can a Catholic marry a Coptic? (2023, April 5). 3) The situation was developing - sometimes hi didn't want to go to church at all through months, on other days he was fasting with water and bread only, or without eating whatever (even when taking medicines). An individual who is not Orthodox but who has a sincere interest in Christianity is permitted by the Church to enter into religious vows with members of other Christian faiths. Their priests, on the other hand, can marry. I understand the issue of Petrine Primacy very well, but for two souls who are in love and who clearly have a heart for christ (as is shown in this man's reluctance to leave the Catholic church or the very fact that marriage to him is not a prelude to sex but a unity that should be "discerned") what difference does it make if my guy in a big funny hat is less special than your man in a small tight cap? ThoughtCo. This article appeared in the December 2011 issue of U.S. Catholic (Vol. this way, only the enemy wins when the Christians fight each other. At the same time, even you mentioned Protestants are different due to a broken Apostolic link (and open defiance really to that link). The Coptic Church is outside of the communion of the Eastern Orthodox Church. 6. I have no qualms with the fact that in my interactions with many Christians, I feel a lot closer to a Catholic than to a Protestant. It is important to note that although all priests can marry, not all who marry remain priests. The union is spiritual, and one's spirit cannot be divided against itself. the main thing i want to say publically is this: don't think that this issue as about a fight between 1 church and another. I want to second Mina's suggestions and plead to you that this is an opportunity to investigate what the differences are and why the division matters between the two churches. Because the Catholic Church regards the Eastern Orthodox celebration of the Mass as a legitimate sacrament, intercommunion with the Eastern Orthodox is both feasible and welcomed under "appropriate conditions and with Church permission." And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Accordingly, a Latin-rite Catholic can attend Sunday liturgy in a Catholic parish that uses a different rite (such as the Byzantine rite Natalie mentions), and this fulfills his Sunday obligation to attend Mass. 2) The medication from the psychiatry helped a bit (were needed because he had suicidal thoughts). At the same time, I cannot change the faith in my heart. Its never healthy to be in anenvironment, religion, cult, or society where people are fanatical. We started to meet more often and fall in love. That's just dumb (in my opinion!). #1 This was a question brought up in a TAW thread. She's worked with couples both individually and as a team, teaching them how to communicate more effectively and break down their barriers that get in the way of connection. I would say that it is important to concentrate on Petrine primacy. However, many such marriages have been performed without notifying or consulting with their bishops. Coptic Christians follow a slightly different calendar known as the Julian calendar. Marriage, by definition, is a lifelong union between one man and one woman. JavaScript is disabled. Can a non Coptic marry a Coptic? - Sage-Advices As a Coptic, you can now attend a catholic church while your girlfriend can attend the catholic church. So I am challenging the belief of the Petrine Primacy based on its futility in comparison to the fact that they see our Orthodox churches with sacramental validity. I attended the liturgy in the Coptic-Orthodox church, met Abounas, his parents and further family. Mina - your statement is a bit incomprehensible: To not let you continue in your usual hijacking process of discussions that is clouded with misunderstandings, I will stop arguing here. Im just asking if it is less of an issue to be fought over. In your times of celebration and your times of challenges, your faith community is your support.". Coptic Catholic Church - Wikipedia I realized that I've said, that a person in such a state shouldn't be in church to start with. 4) We did have the discussion where to baptize our children. Can a Roman Catholic boy marry a Jacobite girl? Although I am sure that you are all aware of this, Catholics and Copts now recognize each other's baptisms. What does F T J 10K mean when engraved in the band of a ring. You are probably just echoing the general view of the Synod - not that I agree entirely with it. She leads marriage preparation classes. The Sacrament of Priesthoood - CopticChurch.net - Pope of the Coptic Now this is my personal opinion: This is completely stupid that the Coptic Orthodox Church considers a coptic christian as living in sin if they marry in the Catholic Church. 3.5 years ago, I married a Coptic-Orthodox Egyptian. The Southern Diocese's Questions & Answers Web site has been designed to be spiritually building. Along with the Ethiopian Catholic Church and Eritrean Catholic Church, it belongs to the Alexandrian liturgical tradition. It Still Confuses Me: Who can receive Communion where (Catholic/Orthodox)? But this doesn't make it right!! If we were united, the situation would be much easier for you. I kind of answered this already in my own view and it is what I was taught: I should of posted this from the beginning, but here is HG BIshop Youssef answer to when asked about your situation: To best put it, "we know where the Church is, we don't know where it isn't." Although they may marry within the church, Coptic Catholics do not marry Catholics or Orthodox Christians very often. may God give you His eternal peace as He guides you through this difficult time. However, I understand that the children should not be confused and it is better for them to grow up in one church. In the case that it is impossible to approach a Catholic minister, that it is a case of real need or spiritual benefit, and that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, the Catholic Church permits its faithful to receive Communion in Orthodox Churches , although Orthodox Churches do not honour this and only. The US bishops For Your Marriage website also has resources on interfaith marriage. I have always been taught that the Orthodox Christian may drink no alcohol during Great Lent (except for wine on saturday and Sundays and certain main feastdays) however, recently an old calendar friend of mine stated that Beer is excepted and allowed to be drunk during the weekdays of Great Lent . Eucharistic Ministers are lay people (men and women) who are granted the privilege to administer Communion, once "the Host" i.e., the Body and Blood of Christ, has been consecrated by the priest. Posted on April 5, 2018 by Cathy Caridi Q1: I find the topic of Eastern Catholic Churches very interesting. Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern United States - Q&A I said that at home we can keep all Coptic fasting times (as I did when we were living together), attend the liturgy together, and the children will go to the Sunday School. How will you find unity in your relationship? You have to be careful by what "recognize each other's baptisms" means. I think we are just reaping some unwanted fruits of mixing dogmas with each other, when one should stick to their faith (as you hit the nail on the head), and never compromise for the sake of marriage. Its not going to be helpful for the engaged couple to be negative with them, she says. I believe that marriage, in general, can cause more problems than good - whether the pair are Coptic or Coptic/Catholic. In this case, I don't see the reason why each (future) spouse would remain in one another's church. Receiving Communion - Orthodox Church in America And can I still be married by a priest. 5. Salvation to us means eternal life. One more thing to add.why find "work-around" to avoid the current rules?! Or do you mean merely that people will talk, and a significant number of them may express disdain for her being there? The excep- tions are the Coptic, Ethiopian, Eritrean, and Malankara (Indian) Oriental Orthodox Churches, which do not bless interchurch marriages under any circumstances. Appeals court rules Catholic school can fire counselor over her same What Is Lent About In The Catholic Church. When we met, he had some psychical issues, saying that the life in Europe is different that he imagined; he had also problems to find friends and he felt alone. Is Coptic similar to Arabic? What is a major difference between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church ? Can a Catholic marry a Coptic Orthodox? And even if both of you are Catholic and free to marry, you should make an appointment with your priest as soon as possible after your engagement. You may call it selfish of me again (and it may actually be considering the points that. Copts have their own pope. Who Are Egypt's Coptic Christians And What Do They Believe? Along those lines of must discuss issues, the Cincinnati archdioceses highlights these areas interfaith and ecumenical couples should discuss before marriage: Will you as a couple be involved in both parties faith communities? CAIRO - 3 May 2018: The matter of divorces amongst the Coptic community in Egypt has been one of the most troubling issues in the church since 2008; the year in which Pope Shenouda lll of Alexandria proclaimed that divorce must be on the grounds of adultery. He started to lead the life that I was not accepting (discos, messaging girls on dating platforms, pornography, spending money on all of this). Second Nephews and Nieces. This is my view, and this is the general view of the Church. ", These theological differences may not affect your marriage but they will affect your salvation. Appeals court rules Catholic school can fire counselor over her same Sponsored by the Coptic Orthodox Church of St. Mark, Jersey City, NJ. Why I should be forgiven if I understood you this way, is because I have a tape recording of Metropolitan Bishoy who alluded to the same idea who thinks that anyone outside the Coptic Church is not saved either. I have attended Coptic services before; was I welcomed because I was merely an outsideras opposed to being one who has deliberately rejected union with the Coptic Church? The word "priest" is designated for a . Well overall Apostolic validity is Petrine authority given to all Apostles, bishops and presbyters, who received the keys. If this happens after the completion of a first marriage where the couple knew about the prohibition but married anyway, then it would not affect the validity of the second marriage. What to Know If You Are Having a Catholic Church Wedding - Brides In your times of celebration and your times of challenges, your faith community is your support.. The Church, therefore, discourages them and requires a Catholic who wishes to marry an unbaptized person to receive a special dispensation from his or her bishop. I had the choice - either I will become Coptic only, or he will divorce me. Neither is older than the other. While such marriages are possible, they are not common among Coptic Catholics. It's about how practical you can be. Here are my own comments For: 1) Your assumption is right--she will be considered in that state.but I feel like you are undermining (1) the importance of 'receiving communion' in the Church (let me add to that, the attendance to any liturgical service in general), and (2) the social affect of such a state on the sinful person. Going to a Coptic Wedding Ceremony? Heres what you need to know. Answer. Only 53% of first cohabiting unions result in marriage. As far as I know, we can marry within any of the Oriental Orthodox churches, and if we want to marry someone from outside of the Oriental Church, whether it be Eastern Orthodox or Anglican or Catholic or whatever, they would have to be baptized by the Oriental church first and become a member of our church. In order for an Orthodox Christian wedding to be considered legal it must be celebrated by a bishop or priest of the Orthodox Church. If they are not ordained, they cannot lead church services or give blessings. This is very similar to, and I hope you don't take offense to this, a homosexual couple attending church regularly. Coptic Catholics are Catholic Christians living in Egypt who use the Greek language in their worship services and ecclesiastical documents. I was never married and she is divorced. . 1127 2 If grave difficulties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having . The two churches do not have the same faith and are separate. The difference long, long ago simplified had to do with the definition of who Christ is in nature. However, I go to a Coptic Orthodox Church where the priest allows catholics to have the Holy Communion. Can a Coptic Catholic Marry a Catholic? - CouplesPop It's not limited to one person in Rome, nor should there be any dependency to him, despite the important historical role it played. i apologise on their behalf that they are not always as welcoming to new people as they should be. Maybe, this is known as a "mixed marriage", when one party has been baptized in the Catholic Church, and the other is baptized outside the Catholic Church. The word Coptic is derived from the ancient Greek word for Egyptian. So the question I want them to take seriously what exactly do YOU believe. We are cordial with each other, but we still have serious dogmatic divisions with each other. We are a strict Church. The reason I challenge you is to see if maybe you can be convinced that you do need to be in the same church, rather than complicating things in the future for yourself and for your children. My husband cannot imagine that we could live together like this. To add to that, and answer your question, yes, people will talk and many will express disapproval. I am sorry for not checking the rules before. Coptic orthodox church vs roman catholic This makes no sense. Before 1983, marriages between second cousins were prohibited. He was going to psychotherapy (started 1 month before we met). - Christianity Stack Exchange Can a Catholic have communion if they married outside of the Catholic Church? Direct Uncles and Aunts. 1) Three weeks after the marriage, the depression came back to my husband. Dating Advice, Orthodox Style | Orthodox Christian Fellowship - OCF Does cryptocurrency have a future in the Catholic Church? Becoming (Or at Least Marrying) an Eastern Catholic An Orthodox wedding ceremony can be held at any time during the year although December 25 is when most weddings are held. Second Uncles and Aunts. "Requirements for Getting Married in the Catholic Church." However, before marrying an Orthodox, the Catholic Church requires that you obtain permission from the . There is one guy in my husband's Coptic community who also divorced with the Catholic woman, so I think that my husband just follows him. Can a Catholic marry a non-Catholic in a Catholic church? Likewise, a Catholic politician who supports policies condemned by the Church (such as the legalization of abortion) may be denied a sacramental marriage. My husband went with me to my Catholic priest and sign the documents, that he is aware that I should do everything to raise the children as Catholics, and that I do have an obligation to not lose my faith. If I understood you correctly, which I think I have, you are saying that marriage between a Coptic and a Catholic may affect one's salvation simply because of the theological differences between them. He became very strict with all people which have another opinion. I notice that you have posted some questions as to whether you can convert to the Coptic Orthodox Church. Is the Coptic Bible different? Clerical celibacy - Wikipedia It just becomes more and more difficult when those persons (I hope my wife agrees with me) never change their position to admit that they are wrong in some views, or for the sake of finding a compromise. Can a jew get married in a catholic church For a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic Christian, express permission is required from his or her bishop. Eight important questions to understand the issue of divorce in the Coptic Church: i have been an orthodox Christian 13 years, and love to get close to God through the prayers, fasting, liturgies and celebrations. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese: Christ was born with two perfect natures, the divine and human, as God-man. So, for instance, a couple who are living together may not be allowed to get married in the Church until they have spent sufficient time living apart. By the fact that you belong to the Church of Rome, I could understand how you can be accepted to have valid sacraments for extreme circumstances. Then marriage with a Catholic is from the Devil. 5, 2023, learnreligions.com/get-married-in-the-catholic-church-542166. So officially in the Coptic Church one cannot marry a Catholic without some form of conversion, charismation or other process that acknowledges full fidelity to the Coptic faith. John Report GabrielWithoutWings Strolling through Naraka Jul 25, 2006 1,415 124 Gainesville, Georgia 2,203.00 Faith Agnostic didn't refer to what we believe, or what the catholics believe or what the Protestants. And Coptic priests can marry. We were talking already with some Bishops (from both churches) and they said that this marriage is possible. 3. marriage to an overseas born Copt would be considered preferable to marriage to an Egyptian-born non-Copt. So if she gets excommunicated if she marries in your church, but you won't get excommunicated if you join our church, so then why the headache? And then there is the Gospel, Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock . Yes, we date with the question, "Am I going to marry this person?" present in our minds and prayerfully in our hearts, but, especially when you are first getting to know someone, you don't need to rush to that conclusion. He is simply a messenger of what certain priests think. In a simple enough manner, isn't this really an opposition to St. Paul exhortation again saying I am of Paul/Cephas/Apollo? Some will take it to imply a priest from one church an perform the baptism of the other rite. What time does normal church end on Sunday? So I was wondering, is it possible for a Roman Catholic to become, say, Greek Catholic or Coptic Catholic, and if so, how does that work? Why does not the Coptic Church ordain married Bishops? That's it. Can non-Orthodox marry in an Orthodox church? None of these were actually stated in the declaration. The African churches (Coptic/Ethiopian/Eritrean) are not lenient, and I agree with the strictness. This is known as a dispensation from form since it allows you to marry without observing the Catholic form of the marriage ceremony. The church acknowledges that the canons require an Orthodox marriage to take place on hallowed ground. Collateral Relatives 1. Question about converting from catholicism to coptic orthodox A Catholic who marries an Orthodox woman and later converts to Orthodox Christianity cannot retain her property. It probably is a coptic priest view too but in any case, I believe it's "correct." In contrast, the Orthodox Church forbids its adherents from marrying in non-Orthodox churches. As an Orthodox, I find a very serious inconsistency with this, and a red flag that is akin to "having your cake and eating it". In the Catholic faith, the church is considered a sacred place where Christ is present, and since matrimony is believed to be a covenant with God, the only place a wedding ceremony can be . I do not know if it will be with me by his side, but it is not the most important. (Most interfaith advisers recommend children be raised in one faith so they have a clear identity.). Forgive my response for its naivety. Why can't we unite without claiming which city should rule the Church? Find the true faith, and be faithful to it. As you said, you didn't know the full details at the time, and it is not your fault you went through all what you went through to support him, but he is still unstable. My husband didn't want to marry me in the Catholic church, because His family members (quite a lot of priests) could not attend the ceremony. In Muslim-majority Egypt, Coptic Christians are often the victims of persecution and repeated attacks on their churches, and have a history of being scapegoated and marginalised by the state. 8) He is preparing the divorce documents. Learn Religions. Now concerning salvation. When Lonnie Billard announced on Facebook in October 2014 that he was engaged to his partner of 14 years, he knew not everyone in his social circles would celebrate the news. Complete List of Prohibited Marriages in the Orthodox Church I meant, that any theological differences may not affect a marriage per se, but it they will sure affect your salvation, as a human being, despite what salvation are you looking for out of whatever church or even faith.". There are exceptions for instance, if the priest is convinced that the couple is not engaged in immoral behavior but is living together out of economic necessity. if you really care for someone, you won't encourage him to behave in an abusive way (to you, for example), because this would encourage him to get further away from God. This is true because, I cannot commit a sin, and I know I am sinning, yet still go to church and act like nothing is happening. But before you tie the knot, it is important to understand what kind of marriage this will be. However, if they are not married at the time they are ordained, they cannot marry after and are expected to live a life of celibacy. Legal prohibitions on marriage between cousins (and other close blood relationships, such as uncle and niece) stem from the Church's ban on such marriages. If a priest who is not allowed to perform the marriage ceremony is available, he should be summoned, albeit the marriage is lawful even without his present. The Great Schism came about due to a complex mix of religious disagreements and political conflicts.